850名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nKMnh8Ad02023/06/28(水) 10:15:15.17
30年で何も変わらない税リーグ
失われた30年の象徴として淘汰されていくのだろうな
失われた30年の象徴として淘汰されていくのだろうな
853名無しさん@恐縮ですID:AgnXO8/W02023/06/28(水) 10:19:14.33
日産マリノスなら日産が自前スタジアムを建設しただろうな
赤字でもかまわんと言って
存在がテレビCMなんだから
赤字でもかまわんと言って
存在がテレビCMなんだから
横浜マリノスじゃ日産はそこまでカネを出さん
カネを出すから親会社がリーグ運営に口を出す
対象が地域自治体にうつっていったけど税リーグコストに見合うに十分な経済効果がないのがバレた
今後は地域とモメ捲るだろうな
どっかが使えない移転カードを切って三下り半を突きつけられてジプシーになるまで
867名無しさん@恐縮ですID:u8zOAI+h0
>>853
ガンバ大阪のパナソニックスタジアムのスキームが絶賛されてたが、あれもパナソニックという親会社があってこそできることだもんな
ガンバ大阪のパナソニックスタジアムのスキームが絶賛されてたが、あれもパナソニックという親会社があってこそできることだもんな
872名無しさん@恐縮ですID:2pQf7aby0
>>867
J1ライセンス満たして、その上で国際試合だAFC基準だ、とかいうようなスタジアムは、資金力のある大スポンサーがついているようなところが立てていればいいわけでな。
それを年間維持費すら稼げないクラブが自治体に要求するなんて狂ってんのよね
J1ライセンス満たして、その上で国際試合だAFC基準だ、とかいうようなスタジアムは、資金力のある大スポンサーがついているようなところが立てていればいいわけでな。
それを年間維持費すら稼げないクラブが自治体に要求するなんて狂ってんのよね
859名無しさん@恐縮ですID:5MNOWt6R0
>>853
やはり「読売ヴェルディ」が正しかった
企業名出せる→宣伝になる→金出しやすい
「読売ヴェルディ川崎」みたいに必ず企業名+愛称+地名をセットにする
を、落としどころにしたら良かったんや
やはり「読売ヴェルディ」が正しかった
企業名出せる→宣伝になる→金出しやすい
「読売ヴェルディ川崎」みたいに必ず企業名+愛称+地名をセットにする
を、落としどころにしたら良かったんや
893名無しさん@恐縮ですID:7Lj9KcAY0
>>859
そもそも親会社がライバルだから応援しないなんてヤツははじめから関心なんかなかろう
そもそも親会社がライバルだから応援しないなんてヤツははじめから関心なんかなかろう
960名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Pi7BUyvq0
>>853
第一候補 平塚
第一候補 平塚
854名無しさん@恐縮ですID:qrWCv9AN02023/06/28(水) 10:21:03.69
今のスタジアムの使用料さえマトモにはらえないのに
Jリーグはアマチュアじゃないんだし
身の丈に有った場所で運営しないと
Jリーグはアマチュアじゃないんだし
身の丈に有った場所で運営しないと
855名無しさん@恐縮ですID:VIDOvDTK02023/06/28(水) 10:21:17.32
最近ヤフーニュースで、どこかの企業が開発したスタのこと言ってなかった?
芝の育成に必ずしも太陽光を必要としない技術が確立したことに伴って、サッカーで使わないときは床を被せて?コンサートとかできるようにするとか何とか
芝の育成に必ずしも太陽光を必要としない技術が確立したことに伴って、サッカーで使わないときは床を被せて?コンサートとかできるようにするとか何とか
それでも田舎なら別にアリーナ作った方が安上がりとかの落ちになりそうだけど
877名無しさん@恐縮ですID:l+EcHEpv0
>>855
サッカーが寄生先にアリーナも入れようといているだけだわな
建設費も維持費も高くなってサッカーは使用料ろくに払わない、アリーナ側にメリットなんてひとつもない
サッカーが寄生先にアリーナも入れようといているだけだわな
建設費も維持費も高くなってサッカーは使用料ろくに払わない、アリーナ側にメリットなんてひとつもない
878名無しさん@恐縮ですID:VIDOvDTK0
>>877
?
?
858名無しさん@恐縮ですID:7dYG09ah02023/06/28(水) 10:23:46.54
また、Jリーグ規約にはチェアマンの行動を抑制する条文がない
チェアマンが違法行為をしても処分を最終決定するのはチェアマン
チェアマンが違法行為をしても処分を最終決定するのはチェアマン
861名無しさん@恐縮ですID:7dYG09ah02023/06/28(水) 10:27:10.99
ナベツネは自由主義者
天皇の名の下、上官に殴る蹴るされていたナベツネはこんなの絶対に間違っていると戦後は日本共産党に入ったが
そこでも上の命令は絶対で個人の自由意志が存在しなかったことに失望して反論していたら除名されて新聞記者に
天皇の名の下、上官に殴る蹴るされていたナベツネはこんなの絶対に間違っていると戦後は日本共産党に入ったが
そこでも上の命令は絶対で個人の自由意志が存在しなかったことに失望して反論していたら除名されて新聞記者に
869名無しさん@恐縮ですID:i5WMemzy0
>>856
共産党よりって書いたのはJのことだよ
ナベツネが人権優先とは俺はあんまり思わないけど割と好きだよ、著作もけっこう読んでる
政治的には保守派だと思うが天皇批判も平気で口にするあたり気骨あるなあと思ってる、そこ言及しても損しかないだろうにと
共産党よりって書いたのはJのことだよ
ナベツネが人権優先とは俺はあんまり思わないけど割と好きだよ、著作もけっこう読んでる
政治的には保守派だと思うが天皇批判も平気で口にするあたり気骨あるなあと思ってる、そこ言及しても損しかないだろうにと
>>861
在学中に自分から辞めたんじゃなかったっけ?
当時の共産党がテロ路線で
インフラ壊す→人民が飢える→飢えると革命が起こる
こういう方針に切れて東大内ですでに反共活動
864名無しさん@恐縮ですID:QG3C5aZf02023/06/28(水) 10:30:27.67
サッカーに対する風当たりが強くなってきてんな
当然といえば当然だが
当然といえば当然だが
865名無しさん@恐縮ですID:cA9QrlEC02023/06/28(水) 10:31:35.32
降格制度って投資する側からしたらリスクがデカすぎる
ちょっと盛り上がるからと言って犠牲にしてるモノが多すぎる
地方自治体側が求めているのは安定成長であってギャンブルであっては困る
ちょっと盛り上がるからと言って犠牲にしてるモノが多すぎる
地方自治体側が求めているのは安定成長であってギャンブルであっては困る
866名無しさん@恐縮ですID:QJypqNMR02023/06/28(水) 10:32:04.51
貧乏山梨県は陸上競技場で十分だよ
870名無しさん@恐縮ですID:AeX9Adrs02023/06/28(水) 10:33:25.17
本当に上手いやつは練習のために球技場とか要らんのよw
871名無しさん@恐縮ですID:AgnXO8/W02023/06/28(水) 10:34:24.95
サッカー関連のスレ見りゃわかるだろうけど
プロ野球(新自由主義)アメリカVS税リーグ(共産主義)ソビエト
内容は冷戦時代のイデオロギー対立なんだよ
875名無しさん@恐縮ですID:i5WMemzy0
>>871
そういう対立が行き過ぎて
野球批判したらサッカーファン扱い
サッカー批判したら野球ファン扱い
これが嫌だ
そういう対立が行き過ぎて
野球批判したらサッカーファン扱い
サッカー批判したら野球ファン扱い
これが嫌だ
876名無しさん@恐縮ですID:jKb5cZCb0
>>875
嫌だと言ってる割には煽ってるように見えるんだが
嫌だと言ってる割には煽ってるように見えるんだが
880名無しさん@恐縮ですID:i5WMemzy0
>>876
そう見えたらゴメンよ
ついさっき、どっちもって書いただけでサッカーファン扱いされてるような気がしてたからさ
もう消えるわ
そう見えたらゴメンよ
ついさっき、どっちもって書いただけでサッカーファン扱いされてるような気がしてたからさ
もう消えるわ
879名無しさん@恐縮ですID:8St9Mf8r02023/06/28(水) 10:50:12.41
本田圭佑 「サッカーも早くライセンスをなくすべき」
【サッカー】<本田圭佑>新庄剛志氏の日ハム監督就任に見解!「サッカーも早くライセンスをなくすべき」 [Egg★]
hayabusa9.5ch.net
881名無しさん@恐縮ですID:g0SxDQ8O02023/06/28(水) 10:52:14.47
税金ちゅ~ちゅ~NPOと
実態はかわらんからな~
保護対象がサッカー選手なだけで
実態はかわらんからな~
保護対象がサッカー選手なだけで
882名無しさん@恐縮ですID:b6bMMjDv02023/06/28(水) 10:58:03.33
やきうもーとか言ってる奴ってなんとか矛先逸らそうとしてるだけじゃね
885ID:Sc02hS7t02023/06/28(水) 11:30:08.48
吹田スタジアムのように建設費は市民からの寄付という形で
実のところパナソニックが出資かつそれ以降の金銭的負担を負うみたいな
大きな企業がバックにつかないと厳しいわな
サンガの新スタも京セラが噛んでいるんだっけ?
実のところパナソニックが出資かつそれ以降の金銭的負担を負うみたいな
大きな企業がバックにつかないと厳しいわな
サンガの新スタも京セラが噛んでいるんだっけ?
886名無しさん@恐縮ですID:G4CE1LEX02023/06/28(水) 11:31:24.16
それより山梨に民放テレビ局増やせよ
895名無しさん@恐縮ですID:7Lj9KcAY0
>>886
フレッツ・テレビでよくね?
フレッツ・テレビでよくね?
937名無しさん@恐縮ですID:D9rF12sH0
>>895
山梨はフレッツテレビ排除されてる
地元CATVが独占
山梨はフレッツテレビ排除されてる
地元CATVが独占
887名無しさん@恐縮ですID:QrUNhBaG02023/06/28(水) 11:38:05.00
山梨県の財力で新スタジアムは厳しそうだな
小関を改修出来ないのか?
小関を改修出来ないのか?
888名無しさん@恐縮ですID:CVe0JuUf02023/06/28(水) 11:41:29.37
山梨の有力企業といえば産業用ロボット最大手のFANUCがあるけど
スタジアム建設費用に出資するメリットが無さそうだよなあ
スタジアム建設費用に出資するメリットが無さそうだよなあ
891名無しさん@恐縮ですID:QrUNhBaG02023/06/28(水) 11:49:09.48
山梨は地元資本があまりないからな。
財力で劣るのは仕方ない
むしろ、小さなクラブでよく天皇杯取ったよ
あれは凄かった。
財力で劣るのは仕方ない
むしろ、小さなクラブでよく天皇杯取ったよ
あれは凄かった。
944名無しさん@恐縮ですID:33i7kIpl0
>>891
富士急王国
富士急王国
894名無しさん@恐縮ですID:THYCouBt02023/06/28(水) 12:13:36.01
J2ってホーム年間21試合なんだね
天然芝で養生のためにプロしかつかわせないとなると
壮大な金の無駄やん
天然芝で養生のためにプロしかつかわせないとなると
壮大な金の無駄やん
897名無しさん@恐縮ですID:g08j3fo302023/06/28(水) 12:23:31.38
そりゃバスケに力入れるところが増えてくるわな
アリーナは作ってもなんにでも使えるし
365日稼働できるし
アリーナは作ってもなんにでも使えるし
365日稼働できるし
917名無しさん@恐縮ですID:3dvrhCQQ0
>>897
アリーナとサッカースタジムと両方作りゃいいだけの話だ
365日使える?「使おうと思えば使える」だけの話であって
実際の稼働率収益なんてたいしたもんじゃないし
色々作って運営するくらいの余裕がなくてどうする
貧しい国なのか?
アリーナとサッカースタジムと両方作りゃいいだけの話だ
365日使える?「使おうと思えば使える」だけの話であって
実際の稼働率収益なんてたいしたもんじゃないし
色々作って運営するくらいの余裕がなくてどうする
貧しい国なのか?
931名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pCQcaMex0
>>917
ろくに稼げん分際で何をほざいとんじゃこのボケ
ろくに稼げん分際で何をほざいとんじゃこのボケ
932名無しさん@恐縮ですID:2pQf7aby0
>>917,931
なんせコレ↓だからな。ほぼ独占的に使うスタジアムの年間維持費も出せないプロクラブって、いったいなんなのさ、と。本当のただの寄生虫だし、こんな自治体への寄生を前提にしたライセンス制度を敷いているJリーグは、乞食リーグだよ。
なんせコレ↓だからな。ほぼ独占的に使うスタジアムの年間維持費も出せないプロクラブって、いったいなんなのさ、と。本当のただの寄生虫だし、こんな自治体への寄生を前提にしたライセンス制度を敷いているJリーグは、乞食リーグだよ。
>県は110億円以上の建設費と、維持管理費として毎年1億3000万円以上の財政負担
943名無しさん@恐縮ですID:acsPyIbe0
>>932
建設費や維持管理費だけじゃなくて使用料も減免受けてるんだから実際はそれ以上の額を県が負担してる
建設費や維持管理費だけじゃなくて使用料も減免受けてるんだから実際はそれ以上の額を県が負担してる
918名無しさん@恐縮ですID:NWEFHiJD0
>>917
自分で作れよ乞食
自治体は無限に金の涌き出る壺じゃないぞ
自分で作れよ乞食
自治体は無限に金の涌き出る壺じゃないぞ
919名無しさん@恐縮ですID:l+EcHEpv0
>>917
金が無限に湧き出ると思っているニートかよ
金が無限に湧き出ると思っているニートかよ
936名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9Wz1mJ4c0
>>917
税リーグなんかに金が無駄にされたから貧しい国だよ
税リーグなんかに金が無駄にされたから貧しい国だよ
968名無しさん@恐縮ですID:RHe6LuHW0
>>936
無駄な公共事業やった方がGDPは高くなるんだけどね
あまり使われないJのスタジアムも維持費莫大だから経済効果は大きい
無駄な公共事業やった方がGDPは高くなるんだけどね
あまり使われないJのスタジアムも維持費莫大だから経済効果は大きい
969名無しさん@恐縮ですID:i+dJJ8GF0
>>968
こんな補助金チューチューに税金突っ込んで一時的にGDP増やして将来の増税を期待させるより、補助金止めて減税すべきだね。
こんな補助金チューチューに税金突っ込んで一時的にGDP増やして将来の増税を期待させるより、補助金止めて減税すべきだね。
903名無しさん@恐縮ですID:HBu3Fms10
>>897
そうバスケの方がコスパが段違い
しかも女性ファンも多いしファミリー層も期待しやすい
そんなBリーグも2026から成績によるリーグ昇降格の廃止をいち早く掲げてる
伸び始めたファン層をシラケさせないようきっちり運営進めてる
Jリーグ抜かれるの時間の問題かと思われる
そうバスケの方がコスパが段違い
しかも女性ファンも多いしファミリー層も期待しやすい
そんなBリーグも2026から成績によるリーグ昇降格の廃止をいち早く掲げてる
伸び始めたファン層をシラケさせないようきっちり運営進めてる
Jリーグ抜かれるの時間の問題かと思われる
915名無しさん@恐縮ですID:VIDOvDTK0
>>903
バスケは室内競技なのが大きいよね
でも背が高いという事が有利すぎて面白くないのだが
バスケは室内競技なのが大きいよね
でも背が高いという事が有利すぎて面白くないのだが
899名無しさん@恐縮ですID:FOjoEImS02023/06/28(水) 12:25:34.09
スタジアム要件なんて必要か?
3,000人の箱とかじゃダメなの?
3,000人の箱とかじゃダメなの?
904名無しさん@恐縮ですID:F9T7/myb0
>>899
そういうスタジアムがいっぱいあった方がいいよな
もっと小さくてもいい
そういうスタジアムがいっぱいあった方がいいよな
もっと小さくてもいい
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