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【山梨県】「持続可能性なき建設」サッカーなど総合球技場 建設に改めて否定的な考え「甲府の使用料減免措置の見直し避けられず」

スポンサーリンク
50名無しさん@恐縮ですID:01FnO6JR02023/06/27(火) 14:13:18.38
これ8500万の減免措置を続けつつ、さらに新スタを建てて赤字でも補填しろって話だろ
そりゃ税リーグ言われるわw
地元のクラブってだけでなんでここまで優遇しなきゃいけないの
51名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nOSHg3W102023/06/27(火) 14:15:11.98
やっぱ税リーグってクソだわ
52名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9yFocWIh02023/06/27(火) 14:16:17.79
山梨まともだな
公共性守ってるわ

あと平塚市もまとも

66名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>52
つか山梨はカネがないんだよ
道志村とか議会が山梨県→横浜市に編入の議決を出したのに県が無視してる

道志村は横浜市の水源地で全て横浜市がインフラを賄って山梨県はやらずボッタクリ状態になってる
道志川は山梨県の水源地ですらないので横浜市の援助がなければゴースト村になってるぞ

54名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Q1u90KZ80
>>52
あと横浜市も
71名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>54
横浜市は野球に特化したから
もともと高校野球ですら税リーグ倍集客力がある

横浜でサッカーを後援しても効果がないと身をもって思い知らされた

76名無しさん@恐縮ですID:ObnG1e3s0
>>71
横浜は絶対にタマケリ殺すマンの藤木の爺さんが
あちこちでサッカー潰しやってるみたいよ
影響力あるからな
86名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>76
夏の県予選とか準々決勝からハマスタが売り切れる

秋の準々決勝ですら保土ヶ谷が売り切れる
その時点で三ツ沢の税リーグの2倍の集客力があるし

せめて全試合を日産でやって半分の3万いれてくれれば後援してやってもいいけど現状じゃ話にならんわ

そもそも横浜市はラグビーWカップですらほぼ放置されてたレベルなのに今さらサッカーがだよ

53名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE02023/06/27(火) 14:17:11.15
日本で「サッカーは文化」だとか騒いだところで

身近な場所に高校野球というマジモンスポーツ文化がある

比較したら何でプロ競技を興味のない俺らが支えないといけないんだ?
というのが90%以上の住人の相違だからな
残り数%の人間だけで支えろよ

55名無しさん@恐縮ですID:xUayx7Mi02023/06/27(火) 14:18:25.14
正直な話、サッカーファンが脅迫のようにスタジアムを建てろ建てろというの「見栄」以外の理由何もないよな
世界には立派なスタジアムがーというそれだけの理由
見栄やプライドのために税金を使わされる
56名無しさん@恐縮ですID:dLkO+WtY02023/06/27(火) 14:19:06.08
身の丈に有ったお金のかからない運営にするか爆発的に人気を上げるかの2択
58名無しさん@恐縮ですID:yCa11OYU02023/06/27(火) 14:20:05.31
「文化にお金を使えない自治体は恥ずかしいと思った方がいい」
81名無しさん@恐縮ですID:kKzpoqjN0
>>58
文化ってのは時間かけて醸成されるものであって大声で主張するものじゃないんだよねw
73名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>58
自分から言うのは恐喝であって文化ではない

文化というは地域住人からの自然発生の時

日本にはガチモンの文化として高校野球という存在がある
まずは高校野球を越えたら話を聞いてやる

508名無しさん@恐縮ですID:/iUAlQe20
>>58
今すぐ私財をなげうって寄付すべき!
偉大なサッカー文化に金を惜しむのか?この非国民!
546名無しさん@恐縮ですID:ClWMmVsj0
>>508
大映の永田雅一は私財30億で東京スタジアムを1962年に南千住にたてたぞ
似たような志の奴はサッカーにはおらんのか?
563名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9Yb5iT5H0
>>546
ジャパネットが自費で専用スタジアム建ててる
Jリーグが30年かけてできなかったことをジャパネットはたった3年でやってしまったw
232名無しさん@恐縮ですID:cWXRiWNe0
>>58
サッカーは文化じゃないだろ。
Jリーグよりも格上のリーグで還暦近いあれがMOMと言うレジャーだろ。
301名無しさん@恐縮ですID:ClWMmVsj0
>>232
いやレジャーならこんな事になってなかったよ レジャーにも興業にもなっていないから問題なのよ
59名無しさん@恐縮ですID:HujBqjxC02023/06/27(火) 14:20:12.78
100年後
野球なんか消えてるよ
64名無しさん@恐縮ですID:zKZi8FJx0
>>59
お前も生きてないのに100年後のこと言い出すの草
60名無しさん@恐縮ですID:HujBqjxC02023/06/27(火) 14:20:59.84
野球なんか消えてるよ
観れば観るほど時間の無駄たし

サッカー場は増えるだろう

91名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw40
>>68
> >>60
> 残念ながらJ2のサッカーより高校野球のほうが面白い

でもJ2の終盤の昇格争いほど面白いものはないんだぞ。
今日本で一番熱いコンテンツだと思う。

J1の優勝争いなんかよりよっぽど白熱してる。

96名無しさん@恐縮ですID:GXt3Smoe0
>>91
> でもJ2の終盤の昇格争いほど面白いものはないんだぞ。
> J1の優勝争いなんかよりよっぽど白熱してる。
いびつ
頂上対決より不幸対決の方が盛り上がるとか
※ハタから見たら大して不幸じゃない
「降格したからなに?」
117名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9rKMqU350
>>96
それ言い出したら何に対しても言える
アニメゲーム芸能他のスポーツエンタメ全てを含めて

「大人気だから何?盛り上がってるから何?」

そういうのは不毛な表現
ただの揚げ足

384名無しさん@恐縮ですID:yF3XAvw50
>>117
ゲームは詳しくないがそれでも一番盛り上がるのは頂上対決
J1ドベとJ2トップの崖っぷち対決が一番とか悪趣味
122名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw40
>>117
だよな。こういうのは当事者にしか分からない。

サッカーがその人の生活の一部になってる人は少なくない。
それくらいサッカーは人を熱くさせる。

そしてその熱さを地域住民が一体となって共感共有できるのがサッカーの強み。

これはアニメや芸能では難しい。

127名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pDi/32jE0
>>122
それスタジアム関係ねえじゃん
収容人数は関係あるけど
118名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw40
>>96
>頂上対決より不幸対決の方が盛り上がるとか

いや、昇格だよ。

昇格って優勝よりも価値があるよって話し。

もちろん降格争いも白熱するけどね

125名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Mrs4pD120
>>118
それも一回目までだな
昇格果たして落ちて再昇格を目指すときにはもうそんなに盛り上がらんし
同じチームが次に盛り上がれるのはやっぱりJ1優勝しかないのよね
98名無しさん@恐縮ですID:PEc4+v6s0
>>91
逆を言えばそれくらいしか見どころないんだよなあ
163名無しさん@恐縮ですID:UBhTWH5A0
>>91
J2で面白いのは降格争いだろう
165名無しさん@恐縮ですID:o+W5B6320
>>163
今季からDAZNに映す価値なし選手権になってさらにアツい!www
106名無しさん@恐縮ですID:kKzpoqjN0
>>91
今年はギラヴァンツのJFL降格争いが熱いよね
119名無しさん@恐縮ですID:cKEnUoeY0
>>106
とりあえず最下位は抜け出した模様

6/24(土)18:00
J3 第15節
北九州 1-1 長野

ミクニワールドスタジアム北九州
観客数 3077人

153名無しさん@恐縮ですID:jNVCUuYg0
>>119
北九州って昔は100万都市で、今でも山梨県の人口より10万くらいは多いのに
3千しか集まらないとか、もう無駄だからやめちまえって感じだな。
ミクニスタジアムはギラヴァンツに出て行ってもらった上、人工芝に張り替えるなりして
誰でも簡単に使えるようにした方がいいんじゃないだろうか、マジで。
68名無しさん@恐縮ですID:e8LJOz9m0
>>60
残念ながらJ2のサッカーより高校野球のほうが面白い
91名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw40
>>68
> >>60
> 残念ながらJ2のサッカーより高校野球のほうが面白い

でもJ2の終盤の昇格争いほど面白いものはないんだぞ。
今日本で一番熱いコンテンツだと思う。

J1の優勝争いなんかよりよっぽど白熱してる。

96名無しさん@恐縮ですID:GXt3Smoe0
>>91
> でもJ2の終盤の昇格争いほど面白いものはないんだぞ。
> J1の優勝争いなんかよりよっぽど白熱してる。
いびつ
頂上対決より不幸対決の方が盛り上がるとか
※ハタから見たら大して不幸じゃない
「降格したからなに?」
117名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9rKMqU350
>>96
それ言い出したら何に対しても言える
アニメゲーム芸能他のスポーツエンタメ全てを含めて

「大人気だから何?盛り上がってるから何?」

そういうのは不毛な表現
ただの揚げ足

384名無しさん@恐縮ですID:yF3XAvw50
>>117
ゲームは詳しくないがそれでも一番盛り上がるのは頂上対決
J1ドベとJ2トップの崖っぷち対決が一番とか悪趣味
122名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw40
>>117
だよな。こういうのは当事者にしか分からない。

サッカーがその人の生活の一部になってる人は少なくない。
それくらいサッカーは人を熱くさせる。

そしてその熱さを地域住民が一体となって共感共有できるのがサッカーの強み。

これはアニメや芸能では難しい。

127名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pDi/32jE0
>>122
それスタジアム関係ねえじゃん
収容人数は関係あるけど
118名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw40
>>96
>頂上対決より不幸対決の方が盛り上がるとか

いや、昇格だよ。

昇格って優勝よりも価値があるよって話し。

もちろん降格争いも白熱するけどね

125名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Mrs4pD120
>>118
それも一回目までだな
昇格果たして落ちて再昇格を目指すときにはもうそんなに盛り上がらんし
同じチームが次に盛り上がれるのはやっぱりJ1優勝しかないのよね
98名無しさん@恐縮ですID:PEc4+v6s0
>>91
逆を言えばそれくらいしか見どころないんだよなあ
163名無しさん@恐縮ですID:UBhTWH5A0
>>91
J2で面白いのは降格争いだろう
165名無しさん@恐縮ですID:o+W5B6320
>>163
今季からDAZNに映す価値なし選手権になってさらにアツい!www
106名無しさん@恐縮ですID:kKzpoqjN0
>>91
今年はギラヴァンツのJFL降格争いが熱いよね
119名無しさん@恐縮ですID:cKEnUoeY0
>>106
とりあえず最下位は抜け出した模様

6/24(土)18:00
J3 第15節
北九州 1-1 長野

ミクニワールドスタジアム北九州
観客数 3077人

153名無しさん@恐縮ですID:jNVCUuYg0
>>119
北九州って昔は100万都市で、今でも山梨県の人口より10万くらいは多いのに
3千しか集まらないとか、もう無駄だからやめちまえって感じだな。
ミクニスタジアムはギラヴァンツに出て行ってもらった上、人工芝に張り替えるなりして
誰でも簡単に使えるようにした方がいいんじゃないだろうか、マジで。
101名無しさん@恐縮ですID:aO5eBQwS0
>>68
同じ高校野球でも明治神宮大会や軟式野球はほとんど話題にならないので
朝日・毎日・NHKの宣伝に煽られているだけなのでは?
184名無しさん@恐縮ですID:ClWMmVsj0
>>101
普通に明治大会は客はいるけど?
237名無しさん@恐縮ですID:cWXRiWNe0
>>60
市民が使用する河川敷のサッカー場は増えるかも知れないけどJリーグは論外だろ
263名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Ab3I35Sk0
>>237
河川敷では野球場潰したら、サッカー場にならずにただの原っぱになるのがオチ
266名無しさん@恐縮ですID:enKp73gm0
>>263
そもそも河川敷レベルでいいんだったらサッカーできる場所だって現状で腐るほどある
316名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Bmyf+sxd0
>>60
増えないよ、どんどん若者がいなくなるのに
61名無しさん@恐縮ですID:dLkO+WtY02023/06/27(火) 14:21:28.34
文化として根付いていないから誰も見に来ないんだよ
62名無しさん@恐縮ですID:lBLQge7Q02023/06/27(火) 14:21:34.81
まぁでもこんなゴミチームに8500万も負担するならBリーグのチーム招致してそっちに負担した方がいい
63名無しさん@恐縮ですID:El6h2hjp02023/06/27(火) 14:22:13.11
税金をそんなに使うのなら建てたら駄目やろ
その税金は未来ある子供たちにでも使えよ
65名無しさん@恐縮ですID:aO5eBQwS02023/06/27(火) 14:22:34.20
前年度天皇杯覇者に対してこの仕打ち
67名無しさん@恐縮ですID:oNElqkN202023/06/27(火) 14:23:11.40
冒頭の持続可能性なき建築のくだりっているのかな?
600名無しさん@恐縮ですID:L2i1XO9D0
>>67
はっきりそう言われてるし必要だろ
将来性ないから投資したくないってこった
69名無しさん@恐縮ですID:dLkO+WtY02023/06/27(火) 14:24:00.16
国内に関してはこのまま税金乞食商売続けてる様だとサッカーは普通にバスケに負ける時が来る
70名無しさん@恐縮ですID:yKQwuQl202023/06/27(火) 14:24:05.43
甲府は中小地元スポンサー500社以上協賛していて専スタだと看板スペースが足りないから小瀬でいいって言ってなかったか?
新スタ構想もリニア駅前がポシャったのもかなり前だし、もともとそんなに熱心な話ではないはず
サッカーに親を殺された八百坂のネタに利用しただけ
72名無しさん@恐縮ですID:1QbJEBxR02023/06/27(火) 14:26:45.48
平均給与低くて田舎のくせに土地代高い長崎でも作ってんのに
他の田舎しょぼwそら若い奴東京に逃げるわ
74名無しさん@恐縮ですID:WXYO2beI0
>>72
ジャパネットみたいな太いスポンサー連れてこいよ。
87名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Mrs4pD120
>>72
既にJ1経験したチームがあって天皇杯で勝っても若者は逃げていきますが
若者が目指す東京23区にJリーグはありません
若者はJリーグなぞ必要としてない
もう平成じゃないんだ
75名無しさん@恐縮ですID:oNElqkN202023/06/27(火) 14:28:12.46
清水は秋葉監督だけで十分楽しめるんだが
77名無しさん@恐縮ですID:aO5eBQwS02023/06/27(火) 14:28:48.05
長崎のは費用ジャパネット負担の民設民営スタジアムだもんなあ
78名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE02023/06/27(火) 14:29:38.01
更にいうと
山梨県の高校野球は関東大会のエリアなんだよ
マジで文化として高校野球完敗してる状態
79名無しさん@恐縮ですID:dLkO+WtY02023/06/27(火) 14:29:47.69
文化だというのならクラウドファンディングで住民から金集めてやれば良いんだよ
スタジアム建設費、維持費をそれで賄えば良い
80名無しさん@恐縮ですID:VXZuYeOg02023/06/27(火) 14:30:35.87
山梨学院が今年選抜で優勝したもんな
84名無しさん@恐縮ですID:aO+ghHVe02023/06/27(火) 14:34:16.35
ファンが借金して建設維持資金出せば解決じゃん頑張れ
88名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LntcLfw402023/06/27(火) 14:38:37.42
全面屋根有りの人工芝にして、24時間使えるようにしたらいい。
サッカー、ラグビー、アメフト、ラクロス、グランドゴルフ、人工芝にしたらいくらでも需要はある。

そしてなにより、いい加減Jリーグは人工芝ピッチを認めろ。

北欧各国もアメリカもトップリーグでの人工芝許可されてるんだぞ。
CLでも人工芝での試合OKだし。

野球の巻き取り式みたいなのじゃなく、ちゃんと砂地の上に敷いた人工芝なら天然芝と遜色ない。

89名無しさん@恐縮ですID:aO+ghHVe02023/06/27(火) 14:38:59.32
客入らないのに何でつくるん?
97名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>89
客が入らないから建造しない
と三下り半を突きつけられた坂豚が
サッカーは世界の文化だから税金投入は当然だとわめいてるだけだぞ
183名無しさん@恐縮ですID:ClWMmVsj0
>>97
発想の転換をして自分がバルセロナでもフランクフルトでもマンチェスターでも行けばいいのに 誰も反対しないよ
93名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uqHO/EAe02023/06/27(火) 14:41:59.30
サカ豚の募金で作れよ
94名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pDi/32jE02023/06/27(火) 14:42:14.27
高校野球は立派な球場建てろとか言わないもんな
そもそもどこの球場で試合するかわかんねえし
試合観戦が第一だからな
99名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>94
球場どころか公立高校のグランドで予選を行うこともある
109名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pDi/32jE0
>>99
今はさすがにそれは無いだろ
まあ球場の文句よりなんでも良いから食べ物売ってくれとかその程度の要望だろうな
120名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>109
数年前に
斉藤由貴の出身校の清水ヶ丘高校(今は名前が変わった)に秋のブロック予選を見に行った事があるぞ
スコアボードとかないので自分で得点経過をメモしないといけない
今何回なんだ?とかボールカウントすら不明で草野球みたいだった
110名無しさん@恐縮ですID:yMLpRvgZ0
>>94
強豪校なら自前のグラウンドで公式戦やれる
115名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pDi/32jE0
>>110
地元の高校の設備を充実させてくれとかの要望はあるかもな
128名無しさん@恐縮ですID:nmoTZHdE0
>>115
それはある 清水ヶ丘は県立だけど
税リーグに投入する税金で公式戦をやるグランドなら
試合経過を見れるスコアボードとか設置してくれとか思うわ

間違いなく税リーグより需要は高い

155名無しさん@恐縮ですID:/Fz9VwIE0
>>128
そもそも税リーグスタジアムは公共の施設とは言えんだろ
スポンサーリンク
未分類
げいすぽ

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