251名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Te3zDJ9m02023/06/26(月) 21:21:17.26
名古屋はマラドーナ獲得するあと一歩のとこまでいったんだよな
253名無しさん@恐縮ですID:vJedDzgO02023/06/26(月) 21:22:03.51
プラティニの方が無理
254名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Te3zDJ9m02023/06/26(月) 21:22:34.36
ジュビロ黄金期と当時の日本代表なら絶対ジュビロ
261名無しさん@恐縮ですID:KNoVz6Pc0
>>254
Jのクラブって結局アジアで戦うチームでしかないからな
日本代表って黒人や白人主体のチーム相手にやれるかって基準で選手が選考されるからな
Jのクラブって結局アジアで戦うチームでしかないからな
日本代表って黒人や白人主体のチーム相手にやれるかって基準で選手が選考されるからな
255名無しさん@恐縮ですID:zAZGuU/D02023/06/26(月) 21:22:35.23
俺的には
ジーコやプラティニだな
ジーコやプラティニだな
今ではデュエル糞弱くて死ぬだろこの糞ガリ2人
257名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9v71zWZ+02023/06/26(月) 21:22:57.88
今の科学的な根拠に基づいたトレーニングしたら昔の選手もそこまでフィジカルに差が出ない気がするが
259名無しさん@恐縮ですID:YIVIxzM402023/06/26(月) 21:23:18.20
今のサッカーはファウルの判定が甘いの?
260名無しさん@恐縮ですID:A2EnPrp702023/06/26(月) 21:24:10.10
自らも動き、ボールを走らせろ
ボールは疲れない
疲れないボールを走らせて、敵を走らせよう
ボールは疲れない
疲れないボールを走らせて、敵を走らせよう
263名無しさん@恐縮ですID:GwF5NoC60
>>260
美しく勝利せよ
美しく勝利せよ
265名無しさん@恐縮ですID:XGLJdevn02023/06/26(月) 21:25:02.63
戦術が進みすぎて面白味は無くなった気がする
266名無しさん@恐縮ですID:VXL4zp6c02023/06/26(月) 21:25:27.84
そんなに今の選手がフィジカルいいか
ジタンの頃と比べて
変わらんだろ
ジタンの頃と比べて
変わらんだろ
268名無しさん@恐縮ですID:oI4ko5Hb02023/06/26(月) 21:26:20.76
中田とか遠藤航とかは体格的には白人黒人に普通に負けてるのに全然当たり負けしないの不思議だな
タッパはそこそこあるけど一時期の大迫も細身なのに当たり負けしなくて不思議だった
タッパはそこそこあるけど一時期の大迫も細身なのに当たり負けしなくて不思議だった
282名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>268
中田はシーズンオフに一人で自主トレで下半身鍛えるトレーニングネットに公開してたでしょ
当たり負けしないポジションの選手は相応のトレーニングをしてるだけの話
中田はシーズンオフに一人で自主トレで下半身鍛えるトレーニングネットに公開してたでしょ
当たり負けしないポジションの選手は相応のトレーニングをしてるだけの話
283名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Z/0XZ8ei0
>>268
コンタクトだけなら当たり前に負けてるけどなw
サッカーに置いてそれだけじゃ無いからとしか・・・
コンタクトだけなら当たり前に負けてるけどなw
サッカーに置いてそれだけじゃ無いからとしか・・・
269名無しさん@恐縮ですID:6bt3nd8H02023/06/26(月) 21:27:08.62
コンタクトにはなんの不安も無いだろうが
守備面でのスタミナとか遅行気味なのが不安
そこまで得点力ないのも
守備面でのスタミナとか遅行気味なのが不安
そこまで得点力ないのも
270名無しさん@恐縮ですID:hpVOf/2j02023/06/26(月) 21:27:54.62
対戦した日本代表DFが体に触ることすら出来なかったと言ってたのに?
271名無しさん@恐縮ですID:LJUOIXSC02023/06/26(月) 21:28:03.07
ジタンなんかがやってた頃が一番面白かったな
今じゃ野球人気でサッカーやってる子供も見なくなっちゃったもんな
今じゃ野球人気でサッカーやってる子供も見なくなっちゃったもんな
272名無しさん@恐縮ですID:GwF5NoC602023/06/26(月) 21:28:39.91
結局今の時代は体力や速さ高さ強さ足元の技術戦術理解全てのパラメータがスーパーマン級の90点の選手を欲してその中で何かが95点だと最高峰のレベル
120もあるが60点だとか歪な選手は難しいんだろな
ジダンはそういう意味ではオール90点~100点の選手だとは思う
120もあるが60点だとか歪な選手は難しいんだろな
ジダンはそういう意味ではオール90点~100点の選手だとは思う
513名無しさん@恐縮ですID:BkXE8tYl0
>>272
ジダンこそ歪な選手だよ今なら
技術や強さは120点以上で速さは80点
現代サッカーに必要不可欠な守備力、90分走る走力やスタミナは60点以下
ジダンこそ歪な選手だよ今なら
技術や強さは120点以上で速さは80点
現代サッカーに必要不可欠な守備力、90分走る走力やスタミナは60点以下
278名無しさん@恐縮ですID:0pWyb1tE0
>>272
体力は怪しくね?
体力は怪しくね?
274名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Hcs3LzKh02023/06/26(月) 21:29:15.45
確かに昔と比べて走力や守備力は向上したね
守備しない地蔵のMFやフィニッシュワークだけのFWも減ったし
守備しない地蔵のMFやフィニッシュワークだけのFWも減ったし
275名無しさん@恐縮ですID:0pWyb1tE02023/06/26(月) 21:29:18.62
バルサ全盛期はイニエスタとシャビが紙フィジカルの希望の星と言われてた記憶ある
あいつらも今のサッカーじゃ無理かなやっぱ
あいつらも今のサッカーじゃ無理かなやっぱ
288名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>275
イニエスタが紙フィジカルとか無知丸出しだな笑
イニエスタが紙フィジカルとか無知丸出しだな笑
369名無しさん@恐縮ですID:m/uSsFFh0
>>275
あの重量級稲本が全力でぶつかって全く動かなかったシャビが紙だと…w
あの重量級稲本が全力でぶつかって全く動かなかったシャビが紙だと…w
300名無しさん@恐縮ですID:SDHkBbWp0
>>275
その2人はボール持ってる時は個の力もある
イニエスタは自分から仕掛けてドリブル突破or引きつけてパスコース作る
シャビはくるくる回って、全くボール奪われないし
ブスケツも足裏使ったりして、捏ねてるうちに相手の守備バランス壊すか刺すような縦パスいれてくる
その2人はボール持ってる時は個の力もある
イニエスタは自分から仕掛けてドリブル突破or引きつけてパスコース作る
シャビはくるくる回って、全くボール奪われないし
ブスケツも足裏使ったりして、捏ねてるうちに相手の守備バランス壊すか刺すような縦パスいれてくる
276名無しさん@恐縮ですID:7dGXfhTk02023/06/26(月) 21:29:26.78
ものすごく正しいよなあ
そしてサッカー以外もつまらなくなった
進化と言えば進化だが
それではルールの意味が無い
そしてサッカー以外もつまらなくなった
進化と言えば進化だが
それではルールの意味が無い
だってそれならルール無し
なんでもアリのフィジカル合戦にすれば良い
だがそうでなくルールで制限するわけだから
ならフィジカル制限をすべき
ボクシングの階級制限みたいに
サッカーではフィジカルで出場時間を決めれば良い
279名無しさん@恐縮ですID:iZhM31dK02023/06/26(月) 21:29:59.94
プレースピードはかなり違うよな
ただ時代を築いた選手なら何やかや適応してそう
ただ時代を築いた選手なら何やかや適応してそう
280名無しさん@恐縮ですID:R60RIER702023/06/26(月) 21:30:33.80
体鍛えるために怪我ばっかり
ウエイトトレーニングに時間取られてフリーキックの練習なんてしてる暇もない
身体能力は五輪選手に任せていいんだよ
球技はもっと技術で勝てるようにルールを変えていかないと
ウエイトトレーニングに時間取られてフリーキックの練習なんてしてる暇もない
身体能力は五輪選手に任せていいんだよ
球技はもっと技術で勝てるようにルールを変えていかないと
281名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Te3zDJ9m02023/06/26(月) 21:30:42.93
話はズレるがインザーギなんかはVARひっかかりまくるんだろうか
285名無しさん@恐縮ですID:YyTRFSUH02023/06/26(月) 21:31:48.13
ボディコンタクトではなく運動量のことでしょ
ジダンは喫煙者説もあったし
ジダンは喫煙者説もあったし
287名無しさん@恐縮ですID:9Cy1FTED02023/06/26(月) 21:32:06.61
単純に身体能力は総合的に上がっていってるし
戦術なんか積み重ねだからどんどん洗練されてるし
道具も進化してるしたらればだけど戦ったら今の方が強いだろうね
戦術なんか積み重ねだからどんどん洗練されてるし
道具も進化してるしたらればだけど戦ったら今の方が強いだろうね
293名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>287
それはないわ
それはないわ
311名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>293
実際そうだと思うよ。サッカーが昔に比べて退化してるとは思わない
トレーニング然り栄養学然り
実際そうだと思うよ。サッカーが昔に比べて退化してるとは思わない
トレーニング然り栄養学然り
322名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>311
足元の技術的なものは退化してたりするぞ
何もかも全てを進化させるレベルアップなんて無理だからな
走力運動量を上げれば技術的なものが落ちたりする
何かを上げるのなら何かを犠牲にしないといけないんだよ
足元の技術的なものは退化してたりするぞ
何もかも全てを進化させるレベルアップなんて無理だからな
走力運動量を上げれば技術的なものが落ちたりする
何かを上げるのなら何かを犠牲にしないといけないんだよ
325名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>322
進化の過程で不要なものが退化したってことでしょ。
進化の過程で不要なものが退化したってことでしょ。
341名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>325
それは違う
全てを上げるのなんて無理だから何かは犠牲になって退化するてことよ
能力には限界があるんだから全部をレベルアップなんてどだい無理な話
それは違う
全てを上げるのなんて無理だから何かは犠牲になって退化するてことよ
能力には限界があるんだから全部をレベルアップなんてどだい無理な話
371名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>341
それはサッカーの進化の過程で不必要なものが退化したってだけでサッカー自体は進化してるよ
それはサッカーの進化の過程で不必要なものが退化したってだけでサッカー自体は進化してるよ
392名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>387
>>371
お前みたいに試合結果すら無いのにタラればでどっちが強い言っても無意味
>>371
お前みたいに試合結果すら無いのにタラればでどっちが強い言っても無意味
プロは結果が全て
その結果が無いんだからそんなのどっちが強いかなんて判定しようがない
408名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>392
無意味だと思うならレスしなければいいのに
無意味だと思うならレスしなければいいのに
410名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>408
だからお前の言ってることは無意味だぞ
だからお前の言ってることは無意味だぞ
418名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>410
そのレスがそもそも無意味だぞ
そのレスがそもそも無意味だぞ
378名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>371
それはお前の妄想や
それはお前の妄想や
387名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>378
お前が妄想だろ。
お前が妄想だろ。
392名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>387
>>371
お前みたいに試合結果すら無いのにタラればでどっちが強い言っても無意味
>>371
お前みたいに試合結果すら無いのにタラればでどっちが強い言っても無意味
プロは結果が全て
その結果が無いんだからそんなのどっちが強いかなんて判定しようがない
408名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>392
無意味だと思うならレスしなければいいのに
無意味だと思うならレスしなければいいのに
410名無しさん@恐縮ですID:uWzE56SG0
>>408
だからお前の言ってることは無意味だぞ
だからお前の言ってることは無意味だぞ
418名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>410
そのレスがそもそも無意味だぞ
そのレスがそもそも無意味だぞ
333名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>325
クロスは重要だが
ベッカムより上手いクロスを上げる選手がいない
クロスは重要だが
ベッカムより上手いクロスを上げる選手がいない
337名無しさん@恐縮ですID:R60RIER70
>>333
本田圭佑も言っていたが
キックが上手いのはもうおまけなんだって
走れて強くて戦術理解するアスリート型が最優先
本田圭佑も言っていたが
キックが上手いのはもうおまけなんだって
走れて強くて戦術理解するアスリート型が最優先
340名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>337
そんな事はない
サッカーはキックが1番重要だ
そんな事はない
サッカーはキックが1番重要だ
345名無しさん@恐縮ですID:R60RIER70
>>340
トラップが重要だと思う
トラップが重要だと思う
352名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>345
ジダンよりトラップの上手い選手は現代にいない
あの膝の柔らかさはやばい
ジダンよりトラップの上手い選手は現代にいない
あの膝の柔らかさはやばい
357名無しさん@恐縮ですID:P+GIqtce0
>>352
メッシ
ジダンみたいな美しさはないが機械みたいに正確
メッシ
ジダンみたいな美しさはないが機械みたいに正確
365名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>357
ジダンの方が上手い
ジダンの方が上手い
367名無しさん@恐縮ですID:R60RIER70
>>352
ジダンはエネルギーの法則を無視しているようだね
体大きくてゆっくり動いてるように見えるから本当に優雅
マエストロと言われるのも納得
ジダンはエネルギーの法則を無視しているようだね
体大きくてゆっくり動いてるように見えるから本当に優雅
マエストロと言われるのも納得
317名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>311
カールルイスみたいな人出てこないし
カールルイスみたいな人出てこないし
320名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>317
カールルイスみたいな人ってのがどういう人のことを指してるのかわからないぞ
カールルイスみたいな人ってのがどういう人のことを指してるのかわからないぞ
326名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>320
サッカーに限らず現代のアスリートが過去より優れているのならカールルイスより早くて高く飛べる選手が陸上界に現れてもいいはず
サッカーに限らず現代のアスリートが過去より優れているのならカールルイスより早くて高く飛べる選手が陸上界に現れてもいいはず
356名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>326
実際に現れてるだろ。カールルイスは短距離も走り幅跳びも世界記録保持者じゃない
実際に現れてるだろ。カールルイスは短距離も走り幅跳びも世界記録保持者じゃない
361名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>356
走り幅跳び世界3位だ
一位の人も1991年に出したパウエル
走り幅跳び世界3位だ
一位の人も1991年に出したパウエル
374名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>361
短距離はボルトだろ。
短距離はボルトだろ。
385名無しさん@恐縮ですID:H+Cw2UqD0
>>356
ルイスの場合は記録が高次元で安定してるから
負けちゃった東京世界陸上は幅跳び史上最強だったと思う
ルイスの場合は記録が高次元で安定してるから
負けちゃった東京世界陸上は幅跳び史上最強だったと思う
289名無しさん@恐縮ですID:SlwAfWIn02023/06/26(月) 21:32:47.40
フィジカルって意味だとペレは凄いね
サイズはないけどスピードも跳躍力もハンパなくてバネの塊って感じ
昔のひょろいDF相手とは言え引っ張られながら引きずり倒してドリブルしたりしてるし
サイズはないけどスピードも跳躍力もハンパなくてバネの塊って感じ
昔のひょろいDF相手とは言え引っ張られながら引きずり倒してドリブルしたりしてるし
290名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Te3zDJ9m02023/06/26(月) 21:33:04.17
モドリッチというかクロアチア勢は俺はドーピングを疑ってる。誉め言葉だからなこれ
295名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>290
ワールドカップでもあの年齢で疲れ知らずでプレーしてるのはドーピング疑われてもおかしくないな
ワールドカップでもあの年齢で疲れ知らずでプレーしてるのはドーピング疑われてもおかしくないな
292名無しさん@恐縮ですID:6bt3nd8H02023/06/26(月) 21:33:59.47
ジダン関係無いけど中田の時代の日本サッカー今見ると
おっそってなるよな。あの時代に昔のjみたら遅いなって感じてたはずなのに
おっそってなるよな。あの時代に昔のjみたら遅いなって感じてたはずなのに
309名無しさん@恐縮ですID:+fpuJyEI0
>>292
それは思うわ
逆にこないだのペルー戦はパスのスピードとかテンポとか「うわ、速っ」と思った
それは思うわ
逆にこないだのペルー戦はパスのスピードとかテンポとか「うわ、速っ」と思った
303名無しさん@恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD0
>>292
ユニフォームもダボダボしていてスタイリッシュに見えないよね昔のサッカー選手
ユニフォームもダボダボしていてスタイリッシュに見えないよね昔のサッカー選手
304名無しさん@恐縮ですID:Cn53yGb70
>>303
大昔はみんなぴちぴちやで
大昔はみんなぴちぴちやで
297名無しさん@恐縮ですID:bXFX2f5+02023/06/26(月) 21:34:54.46
いやいやいや
ご謙遜を
ご謙遜を
298名無しさん@恐縮ですID:pBT0uqD802023/06/26(月) 21:34:56.19
現実的な話をすればサッカーも階級制を導入するべき時代になったんだよな
審判のさじ加減でなんとか勝負を演出してるけど
ガチでやったらフランスのでかい黒人軍団にアルゼンチンの普通の体格のやつらが勝てるわけがない
310名無しさん@恐縮ですID:GwF5NoC60
>>298
フランスも94予選のメンツは肌の色白いのばかりで98でそこそこに
そこから一気に塗り替わって行ったから個人は知らないがある程度の母数から選ぶ場合には黒人の体力がベースにあるのは優位なんだろね
フランスも94予選のメンツは肌の色白いのばかりで98でそこそこに
そこから一気に塗り替わって行ったから個人は知らないがある程度の母数から選ぶ場合には黒人の体力がベースにあるのは優位なんだろね
299名無しさん@恐縮ですID:GwHaRx2702023/06/26(月) 21:35:04.45
油増えてきてから見る頻度減ったな
チームの顔みたいな選手が本当に少なくなった
チームの顔みたいな選手が本当に少なくなった
305名無しさん@恐縮ですID:R60RIER70
>>299
中田の頃のセリエは選手名鑑擦り切れるまで読んだな
中田の頃のセリエは選手名鑑擦り切れるまで読んだな
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