600名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:J1ZntM3u02023/06/26(月) 23:20:51.91
ファンタジスタが不要になりマラソン選手達がひたすらショートカウンター撃ち合うのが現代サッカー
601名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:VfnSOh4S02023/06/26(月) 23:21:07.99
アルゼンチンなんかPKもらいまくってW杯優勝
試合中のPKは廃止すべきだ
全部FKでいい
まったく下らないスポーツだよ
試合中のPKは廃止すべきだ
全部FKでいい
まったく下らないスポーツだよ
602名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:tj7/MS4G02023/06/26(月) 23:21:16.46
競技自体の厳しさとかアスリートの能力とかは置いといて、観てる側として面白かったのはジダンの現役時代からメッシクリロナ時代初期あたりの過渡期だなあ
モウリーニョが頭角現してギリシャがEURO制したりしてフィジカルサッカーの大波が来て、でもまだテクニシャンも沢山出てきてて(イブラとか)
フラットな442から5バックまでフォーメーションもポジションも入り乱れてた
今ちょうどあの混沌時代の選手達が監督とかやり始めてるのが面白いとこだが
モウリーニョが頭角現してギリシャがEURO制したりしてフィジカルサッカーの大波が来て、でもまだテクニシャンも沢山出てきてて(イブラとか)
フラットな442から5バックまでフォーメーションもポジションも入り乱れてた
今ちょうどあの混沌時代の選手達が監督とかやり始めてるのが面白いとこだが
605名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:Z/D3PNTs02023/06/26(月) 23:21:38.87
昔のアタッカーは必死に守らなかったしな
ジダン、フィーゴ、ロナウドが守備しないしラウル、ベッカムがやたら走ってた、ベッカムは毎回走行距離一位だったし
ジダン、フィーゴ、ロナウドが守備しないしラウル、ベッカムがやたら走ってた、ベッカムは毎回走行距離一位だったし
606名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:MvoUpX2c02023/06/26(月) 23:22:17.32
メッシが豚ウドに適わないのは同じスピードタイプのカカに速度で負けるぐらいだし
やはり90年から00年までだよタレントの多さも
やはり90年から00年までだよタレントの多さも
631名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:E/VxsXf00
>>606
数字からしてメッシ＞＞豚ウド、ロナウジーニョ、リバウド、ネイマールなんだが
数字からしてメッシ＞＞豚ウド、ロナウジーニョ、リバウド、ネイマールなんだが
607名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:KNoVz6Pc02023/06/26(月) 23:22:57.69
昔のJリーグは前線を外国人に頼ってた
いまはJリーグが良い外国人を取れなくなって日本人FWが得点ランキングに増えて
点取れる選手が増えてきたな
今はGKが昔のFWと同じような状態
いまはJリーグが良い外国人を取れなくなって日本人FWが得点ランキングに増えて
点取れる選手が増えてきたな
今はGKが昔のFWと同じような状態
609名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:PnLqg3A702023/06/26(月) 23:23:58.40
ジダンはフィジカルあったと思うけどねー中田も当たったら壁みたいとか言ってたような
試合見てるとたまに魔法みたいなトラップしたり、好きだったな
試合見てるとたまに魔法みたいなトラップしたり、好きだったな
610名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:+ZQJjUBl02023/06/26(月) 23:24:10.34
でもジダンも血液ドーピングの噂あったし
ステロイドや成長ホルモンや血液ドーピングしてた90年代や00年代の奴らのがヤバいだろ
ロベカルやネドベドとかモロやん
ステロイドや成長ホルモンや血液ドーピングしてた90年代や00年代の奴らのがヤバいだろ
ロベカルやネドベドとかモロやん
638名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:IJDfN4gN0
>>610
ボルドーからユーベいった後とユーベからレアルいった後で成長や衰えじゃ説明つかんくらいガタイ変わり過ぎだったからな
当時のユーベは何してたんだか
ボルドーからユーベいった後とユーベからレアルいった後で成長や衰えじゃ説明つかんくらいガタイ変わり過ぎだったからな
当時のユーベは何してたんだか
612名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:FABp1gQF02023/06/26(月) 23:24:40.53
ジダンは司令塔なのにヘディングも強かったりするファイターだったと思うがな
613名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:zgyzsVhr02023/06/26(月) 23:24:50.82
現代のサッカー選手はアスリートだからな
アーティストじゃないからな
アーティストじゃないからな
615名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:bs7Aw7dO02023/06/26(月) 23:26:06.82
少なくともジダンやクライフみたいな喫煙者は無理やろ
616名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:gmKQM6ua02023/06/26(月) 23:26:08.12
ハーランドとかも「私がこの時代の選手だったら酷い目にあっていた」
とか回顧する時代とかくるんだろうか
とか回顧する時代とかくるんだろうか
641名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:+ZQJjUBl0
>>616
父親と当時の父親の荒いdfみながら
今なら父親は退場だとかいってる動画あったな
父親と当時の父親の荒いdfみながら
今なら父親は退場だとかいってる動画あったな
656名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:NO4HDDQU0
>>641
カッサーノの生意気さに腹立てたジェンティーレが「俺はあのマラドーナを封じたことだってあるんだぞ！」と言ったら
「あんたがあの時やってたのはサッカーじゃなくてレスリングだろw」と言い返されたという逸話があったなあ
カッサーノの生意気さに腹立てたジェンティーレが「俺はあのマラドーナを封じたことだってあるんだぞ！」と言ったら
「あんたがあの時やってたのはサッカーじゃなくてレスリングだろw」と言い返されたという逸話があったなあ
618名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:cDH05ihC02023/06/26(月) 23:26:59.71
ジダンは謙虚なんだよ
だから名選手でも監督として成功できたのだろうね
だから名選手でも監督として成功できたのだろうね
647名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:4VvG4uOi0
>>618
W杯でフランスが優勝でパリに凱旋した時
チームメンバーが大群衆の前で挨拶したんだけど
ジダンは恥ずかしがって途中で奥に引っ込んじゃったんだよね
W杯でフランスが優勝でパリに凱旋した時
チームメンバーが大群衆の前で挨拶したんだけど
ジダンは恥ずかしがって途中で奥に引っ込んじゃったんだよね
チームメイトとスタッフが慌てて追いかけて
もう一度群衆の前に連れてきたんだけど
恥ずかしそうに困ったように照れ笑いしてる姿は
本当にこの人はスパースターというより職人
サッカーが好きなだけの人なんだなあって思った
688名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:mHN/l1Bp0
>>647
そんな人物が曲者スーパースターだらけのレアルまとめたのすげーな
そんな人物が曲者スーパースターだらけのレアルまとめたのすげーな
639名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:trwJo64k0
>>618
アンリはすぐぶちギレるから監督としてはまったくダメだった
アンリはすぐぶちギレるから監督としてはまったくダメだった
622名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:Te3zDJ9m02023/06/26(月) 23:28:00.44
サッカー選手も植毛の時代だからな
ジダン｢私がこの時代の選手だったら(略
ジダン｢私がこの時代の選手だったら(略
623名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:6bw3soG702023/06/26(月) 23:28:18.18
ジダン→全盛から程遠い2006にロナウジーニョやシャビをボコボコ→ロナウジーニョはメッシの親分、シャビがいたからメッシはトップに立てた、という説も→メッシは年を取って全盛から遠い姿に成り下がった現在でも現役最強と唄われるエンバペをブチのめしてW杯で優勝
どう考えても現代サッカーとやらよりもジダンが上だな
どう考えても現代サッカーとやらよりもジダンが上だな
625名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:/k2aSUnW02023/06/26(月) 23:28:27.92
ジダンの頭痛見る限りケンカのフィジカルなら強そう
でもバランスとか悪いぞコイツ
でもバランスとか悪いぞコイツ
627名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:IJDfN4gN02023/06/26(月) 23:28:46.34
ジダンも技術は高かったけどフィジカルで誤魔化してた部分も大きかったろ
628名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:/k2aSUnW02023/06/26(月) 23:28:51.92
頭突き
629名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:BlPFThWi02023/06/26(月) 23:29:13.62
ジダンの本質は代表から離れた晩年の2006年ワールドカップで、欧州予選敗退確実と言われたフランス代表を急遽お願いされた復帰後、ワールドカップ進出だけでなくワールドカップ決勝進出まで持っていけるそのキャプテンシーとカリスマ性にあると思う
個人成績だけじゃ測れないのがサッカーという団体競技
ジダンという存在がバラバラだったフランス代表に一つの絆をもたらした
多くは語らないものの異次元のプレー技術から魅せるその圧倒的なカリスマ性と存在感
ここでさらに優勝までして1998年以来の偉業を達成すれば伝説中の伝説だったところまさかの延長線で煽り暴言に対し頭突きで退場、最後はPK負けという人間らしさまで持ち合わせてるあたりがその魅力を最大限に発揮している
こういったプレゼンスを発揮できる選手がなかなかいないのがジダンという存在が少し別次元に置かれている理由なんだよね
632名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:AQcmh9h/0
>>629
長い
ジジイになると長文書きたがるらしいな
長い
ジジイになると長文書きたがるらしいな
643名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:BlPFThWi0
>>632
それだけジダンという選手が魅力的だということ
サッカー見てない素人にはわからないよ
それだけジダンという選手が魅力的だということ
サッカー見てない素人にはわからないよ
650名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:AQcmh9h/0
>>643
自分を玄人と勘違いしてる素人ジジイで草
自分を玄人と勘違いしてる素人ジジイで草
636名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:FABp1gQF0
>>629
アルゼンチンみたいなもんや
フィジカルおばけみたいなのは、多いが
ゲーム作れる選手とかおらん
アルゼンチンみたいなもんや
フィジカルおばけみたいなのは、多いが
ゲーム作れる選手とかおらん
630名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:/k2aSUnW02023/06/26(月) 23:29:47.44
フィジカルってガタイだけじゃなくバランスとか込みだからな
ジダンはクネクネフェイント良くするけど不安定な体勢でかわしてたからな
フィジカル弱いぞ
ジダンはクネクネフェイント良くするけど不安定な体勢でかわしてたからな
フィジカル弱いぞ
635名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:/k2aSUnW02023/06/26(月) 23:31:06.31
ジダンはメッシのことを彼はギフトを持ってるって賞賛してたから自分より格上と思ってたな
637名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:hppUJbnC02023/06/26(月) 23:31:37.29
当時ジダンのテクは最高クラスだったけどメッシとか見た後だとジダンの動きはモッサリしすぎに見える
710名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:mVCodDHx0
>>637
より洗練されたのがメッシってこと
当時ジダンのキープ力やトラップ、パス
の技術には驚いた
だがメッシもそれらは同レベルだしドリブルは上、得点力は圧倒的に上だからな
より洗練されたのがメッシってこと
当時ジダンのキープ力やトラップ、パス
の技術には驚いた
だがメッシもそれらは同レベルだしドリブルは上、得点力は圧倒的に上だからな
763名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:GsGqNWvc0
>>710
そうそう洗練されすぎてるんだよなメッシは
全盛期メッシと比べるとジダンは一つ一つのボールタッチも大きく見える
それでも当時は圧倒的に上手かったわけだが
そうそう洗練されすぎてるんだよなメッシは
全盛期メッシと比べるとジダンは一つ一つのボールタッチも大きく見える
それでも当時は圧倒的に上手かったわけだが
640名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:NO4HDDQU02023/06/26(月) 23:32:05.38
久保竜彦が言ってたな
生で見た中だとジーコとジダンのボールタッチは日本人とはレベルが違うと思ったって
生で見た中だとジーコとジダンのボールタッチは日本人とはレベルが違うと思ったって
644名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:/k2aSUnW0
>>640
久保も日本人離れしてた
アフリカ系の身体能力だな
久保も日本人離れしてた
アフリカ系の身体能力だな
642名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:/k2aSUnW02023/06/26(月) 23:33:27.82
頭突きした時の解説
Oh!ジッダーン て頭抱えてたよな
645名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:6bw3soG702023/06/26(月) 23:34:26.67
数字なら
ロマーリオ＞ペレ＞メッシ
メッシの狂信者は都合の良い得点の数え方をするのだろうけど
コレが現実
ロマーリオ＞ペレ＞メッシ
メッシの狂信者は都合の良い得点の数え方をするのだろうけど
コレが現実
651名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:IJDfN4gN0
>>645
ロマーリオやペレのほうが訳わからん数字盛ってるだろ
ロマーリオやペレのほうが訳わからん数字盛ってるだろ
646名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:VTCibsX002023/06/26(月) 23:35:06.02
あと鹿島の選手がトニーニョ・セレーゾの方が僕らより上手いて言ってたのもある
確かセットプレーとロングフィードのキッカーをやった時だったかな
確かセットプレーとロングフィードのキッカーをやった時だったかな
648名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:GwF5NoC602023/06/26(月) 23:35:46.89
そういや日本でソクラテスだけはプレイも指導もしなかったな
649名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:X5fGqUYD02023/06/26(月) 23:35:49.01
現役晩年のウイニングイレブンでもジダンの能力って使いづらかった覚えがある
やはりスピードがないと使い物にならない
やはりスピードがないと使い物にならない
768名無しさん＠恐縮ですID:yWh2xAil0
>>649
ゲームのキャラは「ミス」しないからな
テクニックのパラメーターはあんま意味ないw
ゲームのキャラは「ミス」しないからな
テクニックのパラメーターはあんま意味ないw
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